Join us for an insightful tour around the world with Marcus Haynes, a Brooklyn-based entrepreneur with an intriguing Caribbean-African-American heritage. Picture this - you're a kid from New York, raised in Africa, and you find yourself bewildered in an American college, surrounded by an alcohol-heavy culture, a stark contradiction to the values instilled in you by your Pan-Africanist parents. That's Marcus's story, and he's here to share his unique perspective on cultural identity, global experiences, and life's unexpected twists and turns.
Ever wondered what it's like to live in a remote African village? Marcus vividly transports us to a humble community outside Kasumu, Kenya, where language barriers, cold showers, and constrained resources are part of everyday life. This journey doesn't stop there; we follow him to South Africa, where he navigates the contrasting lifestyles of Soweto and Johannesburg amidst socio-political change. And if you think that's fascinating, wait until you hear about his unexpected encounter with Nelson Mandela and the subsequent culture shock of returning to college life in the US!
As our conversation with Marcus progresses, we address more than just global travel and cultural experiences. We delve into his entrepreneurial journey and his work as an HR Consultant. Marcus uses his multicultural background to offer valuable insights into the growing emphasis on DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion in companies. But it's not all serious. So, grab your headphones and prepare to step into Marcus's world – a blend of cultural exploration, personal growth, and plenty of humor that you won't want to miss.
Connect with Marcus - Website | LinkedIn
Connect with @carryonfriends - Instagram | Facebook | YouTube
A Breadfruit Media Production
Join us for an insightful tour around the world with Marcus Haynes, a Brooklyn-based entrepreneur with an intriguing Caribbean-African-American heritage. Picture this - you're a kid from New York, raised in Africa, and you find yourself bewildered in an American college, surrounded by an alcohol-heavy culture, a stark contradiction to the values instilled in you by your Pan-Africanist parents. That's Marcus's story, and he's here to share his unique perspective on cultural identity, global experiences, and life's unexpected twists and turns.
Ever wondered what it's like to live in a remote African village? Marcus vividly transports us to a humble community outside Kasumu, Kenya, where language barriers, cold showers, and constrained resources are part of everyday life. This journey doesn't stop there; we follow him to South Africa, where he navigates the contrasting lifestyles of Soweto and Johannesburg amidst socio-political change. And if you think that's fascinating, wait until you hear about his unexpected encounter with Nelson Mandela and the subsequent culture shock of returning to college life in the US!
As our conversation with Marcus progresses, we address more than just global travel and cultural experiences. We delve into his entrepreneurial journey and his work as an HR Consultant. Marcus uses his multicultural background to offer valuable insights into the growing emphasis on DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion in companies. But it's not all serious. So, grab your headphones and prepare to step into Marcus's world – a blend of cultural exploration, personal growth, and plenty of humor that you won't want to miss.
Connect with Marcus - Website | LinkedIn
Connect with @carryonfriends - Instagram | Facebook | YouTube
A Breadfruit Media Production
Everybody welcome to another episode of Carry On Friends, the Caribbean American podcast. I'm excited to have my next guest here. Yes, I know I say it all the time, but trust me, they have a very interesting story to tell. And so, Marcus, welcome to the podcast. How are you?
Speaker 2:I am excellent. Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 1:All right, all right. So why don't you tell the community of friends a little bit about who you are Caribbean country, your present and the work you do?
Speaker 2:Excellent. My name is Marcus Haynes. I am an entrepreneur here in New York City, in Brooklyn specifically, and I started a human resources consulting firm going on 17 years here in New York and so far so good. It's still surviving and thriving, despite the market conditions the last couple of years. My background is really interesting because I was actually born here in Brooklyn, not too far from where I'm currently living, but my parents are from the Caribbean. My father was from Guyana and my mother was from St Kitts, and when I was very young and my brother was very young, they decided to move us to Africa, so that's where I spend most of my childhood.
Speaker 1:Wow, all right. So that's how I was introduced to Marcus was through Rafael Harry. Yeah, it was on his podcast called White Label American, and one of the questions Rafael asked me was about my experience going off to college and, based on my answer in the middle of the interview, he says I think you should meet Marcus because he said the same exact thing and the engineer was nodding. And so that experience was, you know, when I went off to college, this beer drinking culture, or just alcohol culture, was just a very new and weird experience because it was very odd seeing peers get so wild and crazy over alcohol. It's almost as if, as we say in Jamaica or maybe the Caribbean, never see, come see. And it was just like what is going on and they would collect beer cans and stack them in the window or absolute bottles. And I couldn't understand this, because you come from a Caribbean culture where if the buckle empty, dash it way and if it's not being used for something else, because you know we repurpose everything, right, absolutely. So if you're not repurposing the bottle, why are we putting up the empty buckle, which is basically garbage, on display right? For what? For what purpose? So I was sharing like this was just very odd.
Speaker 1:The drinking culture and you know that I grew up around alcohol. You know when the adults had parties, you get the liquor, you're probably pour out the liquor, but you dare not touch the liquor. But at the same time there wasn't a need for me to feel like I needed to drink alcohol. It was, I don't know. And so Rafael basically said you had a similar experience when you went to college. So I did. I'm just telling the audience that's how we met. But before we get to that college experience, tell us what it was like growing up, basically in Africa. So tell us a little bit about that experience.
Speaker 2:It was, it was all that I knew. It was home, it's. You know, people asked me that question over the years and they asked me well, was it strange and was it difficult to adjust? I mean, it was all I knew, because I was four years old when I moved there and it was all that I became familiar with.
Speaker 2:And it was interesting because I would travel periodically, almost yearly, back to the Caribbean to visit relatives and back to North America because, that's, a lot of our relatives resided here as well and that seemed foreign. You know, coming back here seemed very foreign and it was. It was eye-opening and jarring how different it was, both good and bad. But that, that was my, that was home. And even though I loved growing up there and I've actually grown to appreciate it more now as an adult, since I've left there, I still connect more with my Caribbean heritage because of the way my parents were, their traditions, their way of communicating, their way of raising us, by interaction with the relatives. It's, it was. It was pretty unique and I really appreciate the fact that they had such strong morals and values and traditions.
Speaker 1:What was the first African country you moved to or your parents moved you to? I lived in Zambia first. Wow, and how long were you in Zambia before you were off to the next country?
Speaker 2:It was almost 11 years. It was almost 11 years.
Speaker 1:And I guess your parents are diplomats or like what took them to Africa? Or was it something other than and forgive my assumption and presumptuousness, because not all people are diplomats, which is why they travel. But given that this was years ago, that's typically the most common way or common reasons why parents were traveling. But if you tell me a little bit more about your parents background, that will help set the context for the audience.
Speaker 2:No, that's a valid assumption and that's exactly what it was. But my father? It was my father's dream to move to Africa. My father was, I guess, a supporter of the Pan-Africanist movement. He was a big supporter and follower of Malcolm X and Marcus Garvey and that's how he came up with my names. He was naming me after Marcus Garvey and Malcolm X and he always believed in going back to Africa and repatriation and, I guess, not raising his children in North America. He was always very committed to that goal and he was a professor, he was a PhD in living linguistics and when he first moved to Africa that was his career before he joined the United Nations and that was the career that he stayed in for the duration of our time there.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's really amazing. So the other question that I wanted to ask you and you touched on was, as you have all these different cultures because your parents, they are Caribbean in culture, but still countries have different variations of a culture, so you have San Quetzalana and then the Caribbean collectively, and you were too young to probably have too much of an American culture, but you could say that America was in there. And then now you go to Africa, zambia. How were your parents able to maintain that Caribbean tradition and connection while also allowing you to experience Africa?
Speaker 2:Fortunately there weren't major differences in terms of philosophy, mindsets, community, so I think that helped to kind of facilitate that development and maintenance, maintaining our culture and tradition. So it wasn't that foreign. I think that was what really made it almost seamless, because the way they raised us, the kind of morals and values and traditions they wanted to raise us with, weren't that different from the environment they were actually in.
Speaker 1:That makes sense Because, again, you know, when we all come together we just call things different names, yes, but we kind of have similar, I guess, like you said, experiences because we came from Africa, or most of the Caribbean have a very heavy African influence, exactly so you went to Zambia, and where else did you live while you were in Africa?
Speaker 2:I lived in Kenya for a brief time before we moved to South Africa, and I spent another almost four years there. That's where I graduated from high school.
Speaker 1:And so what was high school like? What was school like? You know, what other languages do you know? And this is not to fetishize you, it's really just to get. This is just really to get and we talked about this before that the experience that you may have had and you know we're not going to date our age, you but the experience that you had years ago was not as common as the opportunities that people have now where they pick up and go to another country. So for you, you know, I think telling the story you know in a time when not many people are doing it gives a fascinating perspective. So, yeah, just what was school like? Learning the languages and all that good stuff.
Speaker 2:I was fortunate enough to go to some pretty, to attend some pretty diverse schools. Most of the school I went to were private and internationally focused and a few of them early on were public, but after that the rest of them were private and it was challenging from a standpoint of just really making and establishing friendships, lasting friendships, because there's so much movement. I mean I went to three different high schools in two different countries and also I mean the language wasn't that big of a challenge because because of the fact that I went to private schools and, like I said, internationally focused schools, so you know English was the primary language taught and spoken I had opportunities to learn and take classes in different dialects as well, but I chose to study French primarily, so I started taking French classes as early as I can remember, so I didn't really become too fluent or have a lot of exposure to a lot of the local dialects.
Speaker 1:And so tell us about the experience in Kenya. I know right now Kenya is the hottest African country that everyone is talking about. From you know, from everything. I mean, most people don't even know that everything they a lot of the technology we're experiencing really you know is birthed out of Kenya. So talk to me about your experience in Kenya, even though, even if it were only for a brief time, I lived in a very remote village.
Speaker 2:Actually, I went there and spent it was almost like a sabbatical or semester abroad. Essentially, we had some very close Kenyan friends who the father actually worked with my father at the United Nations and when he took his family back he offered me a chance to come with them. So that's what I did and we stayed in this small village outside of Kasumu, which is pretty close to the Ugandan border, and that was really really interesting because it was very much a very rural type of environment and it was on a farm and they'd like farmers. Do you know, we had a generator and we didn't have hot water and we cooked over gas stoves and we lived in a, like I said, a very rural, no-froze environment.
Speaker 1:That sounds like. Well, it's bringing back memories of growing up in Jamaica. There is, you know, there was no hot water. I mean, now they're fancy, you know you can get hot water, but then it wasn't. And I remember, you know, after moving here and going back to Jamaica, having been used to American hot water, cold water, and going there and like double dutching, before I jumped into the shower Because I'm like you know, it's one of those things that you got to run in and just like scream and then get it over with. So that sounds, you know, familiar.
Speaker 1:What else was different about it? Like you said, cooking over the stove. Like you know, I remember back in 88, again, I'm aging myself here but, like you know, in the Caribbean they had, like, these little cooking mobile cooking things that ran on kerosene oil or something like that. Oh, that's what you're talking about. Okay, yes, yeah, so, yes, you know, it's all familiar, you know, and anyone who's listening, who's like I, will find a picture and show it to you. But even after the hurricane, I think what? What a lot of Jamaicans had was like, yeah, you know, they had that type of stove because that's what they would cook outside in. So no one fried fish in the house. They fried it outside on that thing, or they roasted breadfruit on that thing because it was so mobile you put it outside. So I'm sure some somewhere somehow that things still exist. But you're bringing back some memories. What else was unique about that rural experience in Kenya?
Speaker 2:I think it was. It was. It was good for me to really appreciate the little things. I wouldn't say I was spoiled by any sort of imagination, but because even where we lived in Zambia, there was a definitely a stark difference in terms of all is accessible and available when you make the comparison to North America and other Western countries. Just the accessibility of just basic things and having things that we consider luxuries were everyday things that people have here in the US, for example. But the time of Kasuma was definitely more of a stark contrast and I think I was ready for it. I mean, I didn't. I think they probably having the cold showers is probably the toughest part.
Speaker 1:That's always tough. I'm not going to lie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but everything else was fine. I was familiar with the lack of electricity and the strange bugs and animals and pests and snakes, and that wasn't I was familiar with all of that.
Speaker 1:It sounds like you had like a Caribbean experience from from from me living in Jamaica, like it's just like a thing. So let's shifting now to South Africa. What was your experience in South Africa? Tell me a little bit about that experience.
Speaker 2:So we lived in Johannesburg and that was that was more more developed than any other places I lived previously and there was definitely more accessible and available and it was just a more modern city and modern environment. But it had its own set of challenges. It was not too long after apartheid was supposed to be officially over and not too long after Nelson Mandela's release from prison. You know, you may change those institutions and make those drastic changes to policy, but changing people's mentalities and mindsets and behavior that will take generations.
Speaker 1:You chopped down the tree, but the root system still exists, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, I dealt with some vicious racism and prejudice and some, you know, just really eye-opening things and interactions. But I was fortunate and I don't take this for granted because of my father's position and where we lived and where I went to school, I was shielded from the worst of it. I think so, especially when I compare myself to a lot of the friends that I made, a lot of my classmates who didn't have the same luxuries or opportunities or privileges. You know people who a lot of my classmates lived in Soweto and grew up in Soweto and they were either bused into the school I went to or they were boarded there. There were boarders, they had scholarships and they were allowed to board there because they're scholarships and they had a very different experience and different background and different upbringing than I did. So, like I said, I don't take that for granted.
Speaker 1:I mean we're going ick and come back, ick come back.
Speaker 2:Sorry, that was a lot, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, you said a lot but you're not telling the audience. You know Like I think you need to put it in context the timing. You know you said it, but you are in South Africa around the time that Nelson Mandela was released from prison, right, and there's a lot of change that is happening. But I know this. But there was a very significant experience that you've had and I'd like you to share that with the audience and, if anything, that you learned from that experience. I think you know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2:Oh, amazing Nelson Mandela. Yes, what did I learn from it?
Speaker 1:Yes, Like, what was that interaction like? And you know, in the conversation with Rafael, you I guess you didn't recognize or you didn't appreciate let's use that word the magnitude of that. And so, like, share, one, the interaction. And two, you know, I guess, your awareness of like, the privilege, like you said, the privilege because of who your father was, where he worked, the proximate, the school. I think that is just such a what's the word I'm looking for? I don't want to say point it, but it's just such an important experience that not many people ever get to say they've met Nelson Mandela or someone who history is. So what's the word I'm looking for? Like is so like they have their place cemented in history. And so for you to have that experience, meeting him and now, how do you take that experience to your, you know, as you grow and then come back to America I guess that's what I'm asking like, how did all of this experience, bottled together, help you with life after, now that you've moved back to America?
Speaker 2:From a perspective and understanding and appreciating the small things in life, the little things in life, and appreciating human beings and how precious every interaction is. And I think this is this is one of the reasons that I embarked on the career that I'm in and just and chose this career of human resources is because at a very young age I mean, I think part of it is innate, I think part of it is is who I am and how I'm built, but also my, my experiences kind of led me to where I am today. Those experiences growing up and traveling the globe they absolutely make me good at what I'm doing today.
Speaker 1:And we're gonna get to what you're doing. So at what point did you decide like, okay, I've done Africa, we've traveled around the world. Why did you move back to the US?
Speaker 2:To attend university.
Speaker 1:And that's where we buck up in the beer drinking.
Speaker 2:I know I went from shaking Nelson Mandela's hand to doing kickstands. Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:So how did you process that experience? For me it was just like, oh my God, like these people don't know how to pay my alcohol and just kept it moving. But what was your experience with the college life, coming back from Africa and going to school in these different countries?
Speaker 2:Oh, it was extremely difficult. I was a fish out of water and I thought I wouldn't be, because we would come back here on vacation pretty regularly, at least once a year, maybe once every other year, to visit family, see relatives, travel a little bit, and it's because a lot of my relatives are based on the East coast, especially the Tri-State area. But I thought I was ready. I thought, oh yeah, I come here almost every summer and hang out with my cousins and I know the lingo and I know how to dress and I know what the popular songs are. I think I can hang. And yeah, no, it was rough.
Speaker 2:That freshman year was brutal. I was telling my wife this not too long ago and how this is freshman year, I would wake up before my eight o'clock lab, my eight am lab. I would wake up about 6.30 and iron my clothes and I would wear a button down, shirt and collar and some slacks or maybe some khakis and some hush puppies and I would go to class. I'd go and have a full breakfast at the cafeteria and then go to class and people thought I was crazy because people would roll in the class. They'd wake up five minutes before class rolling in their pajamas, exactly that was the and they think I was crazy.
Speaker 2:My roommate thought I was nuts because he said well, what are you waking up so early and why are you ironing your clothes Like I don't even have an iron?
Speaker 1:Listen, you just brought back because I forgot about the whole pajama thing, because in my head again, caribbean parents, you're going to class in your 19. Yeah, exactly, you know, like what is that? You know? So I didn't dress as preppy or formal like you, but you're still just decent, you know. Like you know people presentable Like here, comb, you know not going in pajamas, face wash, brush, teeth, so it was a culture shock. I remember it was just such a weird experience.
Speaker 1:So my dorm room was a Jack and Jill setup. So it's for anyone who doesn't know what a Jack and Jill is it's two rooms where the bathroom is in the middle, separating both rooms. So I was sharing a bathroom with three other girls, including my roommate and this one girl. She washed her here every day. I was like who does that? And then I was complaining because I'm like she go, don't know the hot water. Right, do you have to remember? Like, as a black girl, washing your hair every day is foreign, like who does that? And so the hair washing one, not only she go, don't know the hot water, she's in the shower for a long time, mm-mm.
Speaker 1:So it's just like I don't and you're just bringing back memories of these like they were so small. But to someone from Brooklyn and a very, you know, strong Caribbean enclave like this is very foreign business to me. Like this is new and the ironing we ironed. Like I had an iron and my roommate had her ironed. So my roommate was Jamaican too, so we had our ironed right.
Speaker 1:So when they come out to the room looking crush, we're just looking like we don't understand this. We just don't understand this at all. I mean, I am not the best ironer. I generally think that it's been my experience that all the Caribbean men that I've come across they love to iron, love it Absolutely. My brother will iron his jeans. That's how much he has. That's true. He's like you know, that's just how much. But it was just like I don't understand this and I mean it's not that it was a bad thing. I think what people you know don't understand how much we're so ins, it's so insular in the house, like these are the norms in the house and it never occurs to us that other people do different things. So it's, it's a culture shock. Like wait, you don't iron to put on clothes and you wash your hair every day. You know, every time you take a shower, you wash it.
Speaker 2:Like don't get me started on washcloths. The last year in this country.
Speaker 1:So so. So the college experience was as you said. It was just like you're fishing fish out of water. So now let's shift to your consulting business. As HR and you know I've sat in multiple HR roles so what particular area of HR do you consult in? Are you more of rewards and compensation, which is basically the money pot, benefits, benefits or is it more like talent management, like which area of HR are you focused in, or do you do all of them?
Speaker 2:I do all of them except for benefits and payroll. So what I do is I evaluate the human resources infrastructure of a particular company or organization and I help them to figure out ways to make these processes and strategies more compliant, more cost effective and, overall, more efficient, and customizing that approach to that particular company, that particular organization and that particular sector that they're in. So it's not a, you know, one size fits all type of approach. I have to really understand exactly what they're doing and where they want to go, because the goal is to help them to scale effectively.
Speaker 1:I mean, I've always thought that HR is a very critical role in any company because it's a cost center. A lot of times it doesn't, you know, it becomes like a Cinderella. I mean it's needed, but you know what I mean, like it's almost like, oh, that's HR. You know that's not important, but I think in the last couple of years the role of HR has really become very central, as we have a lot of the social unrest and you know, like with COVID, you know the different, you know companies who were absolutely against working from home had no choice but to embrace working from home. So what has been the thing that you're seeing most with your clients and, I guess, broadly in the industry when it comes to HR, that you're seeing as a trend or some challenges that companies across all industries are still dealing with?
Speaker 2:I think a lot of companies are still adjusting to having a distributed workforce and basically having to manage an organization virtually that. I think it will be an ongoing challenge, but it's really interesting to see the new found emphasis on DEI diversity. Equity and inclusion Sorry, equity and inclusion.
Speaker 1:It's a buzzword, it's that's how I feel about it. It's a buzzword and I feel like on the outside looking in, they put all the minorities in the DEI roles.
Speaker 2:That's it's interesting. I have some thoughts on that. Go ahead.
Speaker 1:And it's not necessarily I can't say blankedly it's a bad thing. I feel like there has to be other qualifications, other than your minority Precisely, To be in that role Precisely. And I just don't see a lot of that and what happens is just putting someone in that role because they're a minority causes more harm. So that's just my thing and I try not to be pulled into DEI projects because I'm black or have immigrant experiences, Like I'm very mindful. If I get pulled into something I want to make sure it's really deeply rooted in what my experiences are and not because I'm solely the black woman immigrant. Those three minority you know are buckets. The checklist right, the check yeah. So that's just my thing.
Speaker 2:On DEI no, I agree. I agree.
Speaker 2:I was having a conversation about that recently when and I've asked I'd like to actually do a kind of a formal survey on this because I noticed the same thing you just mentioned and I actually dealt with this specifically with a client who had asked me about whether it makes sense for her.
Speaker 2:It makes sense for her this is a white woman and it makes. Does it make sense for her to oversee the diversity committee at this particular company? And she said she didn't necessarily feel comfortable doing that and she was worried about the optics and what I told her. I said well, you are the primary HR professional in the organization and just because you're a white woman does mean that you can't facilitate and lead this committee and the conversations that are surrounding diversity, equity and inclusion at the organization. And it is something that I've really been curious about and really kind of pushed people on and to ask people's opinion, especially other seasoned HR professionals Like you know what is. Is this prerequisite? You know what is the challenge here? What is it? What is it that a non-minority can't do to impose or to enforce or to promote or to develop practices within an organization that can fulfill these needs?
Speaker 1:I mean, it's a tricky subject. We probably need a different podcast to talk about it because, yeah, because some people might think that somebody of color should be in that role, but I would think that maybe it would be good for some. I mean, there's an argument for both. There are some people who are deeply rooted. They study this. People of color. They know it, they know the practice, they are beyond. You know like this is what they live, eat and breathe. Right, those are the exceptions and this is what a lot of people don't realize. They're the exceptions, they're not the norm. And so other companies who don't have the resources to pay the people who are deeply rooted in this practice decide to look around and maybe pick someone who's maybe vocal about it in the office, but don't have enough tools or resources to expand their practice of a DEI leader and then bring that into the company and the culture. So it's very complicated, but DEI is one, and the distributed workforce.
Speaker 1:So, funny story, I left the legal industry completely in 2017 and I went to work for a company. That was another culture shock, and it was a culture shock because law firms are rooted in what Precedence culture? This is how we've done this. Law firms have been around for 50, 100, 200 years, right? So I go to this company and I go in and they're like you could sit anywhere. I was like, wait, excuse me, what do you mean? I don't have a desk that I come and sit at every day. No, people just pick whichever desk they want to sit. That was one. There was no desktop. Oh, we give laptops. So we had a MacBook and it's like you take it home every day. Wait, what? What you know?
Speaker 1:And then it was a very different culture because most of the people that I worked with were distributed. I had coworkers who were in the UK they're in different parts of the US and it was the first time I experienced what now everyone considers a distributed workforce. And most of my coworkers I only saw them once a week because they were consultants. So, depending on their travel schedule, some would be in the office on Monday because they traveled Tuesday to Friday, or some would be in the office Friday because they traveled Monday to Thursday. And it was just a very new experience because I also saw the dysfunction in that model, coming from a model where everyone came to work, everyone worked in the same place and if there was another law firm in another city. All those people worked in the same place. But, looking back, that was one of the best experiences that I had because when everyone was adjusting to this new way of working in the pandemic, by the time the pandemic rolled around.
Speaker 1:I was living this life for three years. I had a boss that I've only seen maybe twice in the three seen in person physically maybe two times or three times in my entire tenure there. And there were people that I spoke to all the time and I've never seen them in person. They were always just on a team's call or whatever that we had going on. But going back to the trends that you've noticed and most of my listeners aren't HR folks, they are the employees maybe impacted by these HR policies. So how should we be navigating or figuring out what we should be doing at work? Because everybody's having a problem with this Google, microsoft, everyone is having a problem with that. So what is the role of the employees? And you get this unique position because you see the challenges the employers are dealing with and the employees. Once you give me something, you can't take it back because it's then going bong dong the building if you take it back. So, from that perspective, what are your thoughts about where we need to go next?
Speaker 2:I think we definitely need to listen to employees more, and it sounds obvious, but it's shocking how few leaders really listen to their employees or provide a safe environment to allow feedback from their employees. Now, listen, the employees don't expect you to deliver on everything that they ask, but they expect you to listen, and if they don't feel as though you're listening, you're going to lose them. And there are a variety of reasons and you hear the whole adage about the people. The number one reason that people leave is not because of money. There are several other factors and having a good manager is one of the reasons they stay.
Speaker 2:And it's even more critical now to listen to your employees, particularly with this distributed lifestyle now, because, as you mentioned, there are many people who hire, people who never meet in person, and there's so much that you lose and you don't have to build upon because you don't have that face-to-face interaction. And it's funny. It's actually gotten almost comical when you look at how people's days are structured, where there's no more small talk, there's no more water cooler talk. You log into your Zoom or whatever it is you use, and you have to get right into it. There's little room for niceties, pleasantries, small talk. Hey, how was your weekend? No, it's okay, let's get on to the agenda. And then, oh sorry, I got to jump to the next call. So it becomes so much more impersonal. And because of that, because of the environment, because of the current situation, you have to find ways to make the time and put in practices and to really make a stronger effort to do these things. Otherwise it's not going to look good yeah.
Speaker 1:There's no easy fix because each company also have to factor in their culture, and the other challenge that I see is that people are holding on, still holding on to a pre-pandemic culture and not being open to what a post-pandemic culture. It's the holding on to what was, as opposed to what can be. What was good about this, what was, and I think it's an opportunity for them to learn what wasn't so great about it. It might have been great for you, but for some people it wasn't great. But that's a lot of work that companies are. They're still underwater with DEI. I don't even think they're ready to deal with the culture overhaul yet, but yes. So when we think of so wrapping up, when we think of your travels and your experience, your multicultural experience, what advice would you give to the audience?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a good question. I would definitely say travel, I mean travel as much as you can and travel outside of your comfort zone, travel outside the country, travel to a place that you're not familiar with, that you're not familiar with the culture, the traditions, the language, the food. Yeah, you learn so much from traveling and it really changes your perspective on life, on the world, on people. It allows you to understand other people more effectively. Travel is priceless, wonderful.
Speaker 1:Marcus, this was such a wonderful conversation. I feel like now we're going to chat a whole bunch of other stuff outside of this, but if anyone wants to get in touch with you, where can they find you?
Speaker 2:RH1 Consulting. Emma Haynes at RH1consultingcom. Rh1consultingcom is the website. You can definitely reach me. I'm based here in New York. My clients are based in the US, somewhere international as well, but yeah, I'm local.
Speaker 1:Wonderful. Thank you so much for being on the podcast sharing your international experience.
Speaker 2:And there it is.
Speaker 1:You know we have to do it, of course. Of course I love it. I love it, I love international, worldwide experience. This is why I love doing carry on friends, because I can do those things and people get it. You laugh, you are going to laugh, you're going to you know. Like you know, my friend sent me a video of what her friend was doing, a video of her son, of his son, and asking his son like can you speak Jamaican? In the sun it's like yes, so what Jamaican words do you know? You know what the sun said? Tree and eight. You know I was just laughing, not number eight, but hate. We have to stress it.
Speaker 2:If you know, you know, you know you know.
Speaker 1:So, marcus, thank you for being on the podcast, for laughing and sharing and, as I love to say at the end of every episode, walk good.